Saturday, December 10, 2005

Mormon Democrats? Is this possible?

I am very interested to know what you all think about Democrats in the church.  This is something that is never talked about in Sunday school or over the pulpit, but it gets talked about between members often.  The common perception seems to be that you can’t be a good Mormon, and be a democrat.  Some have even suggested that one should have his temple recommend taken away if he is a registered dem.  Let me say, I think that belief is rubbish.  Where do you think this belief came from?  Is it because Democrats are more liberal, and therefore have more progressive beliefs, and because most are pro-choice?  How does one explain the pro-choice republicans?  Or the log cabin republicans?  In today’s political spectrum one can be anywhere on the broad range from far right to far left and anywhere in between.  This is what I think we ought to be to looking at, not merely at the particular party one belongs to.  

I came across a very interesting article from the Salt Lake Tribune from May 3, 1998.  I think a lot of people regard the SLT as a liberal paper, but none the less, this article says something of substance; mostly because they quote a General Authority. Here is a portion of it:

HEADLINE: GOP Dominance Troubles Church; It hurts Utah, says general authority, disavowing any perceived Republican-LDS Link; LDS Official Calls for More Political DiversityThe LDS Church, through a high-ranking leader, is making its strongest public statement to date about the need for political diversity among members, while expressing concerns the Republican Party is becoming the "church party.""There is sort of a division along Mormon/non-Mormon, Republican/Democratic lines," says Elder Marlin Jensen, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. "We regret that more than anything -- that there would become a church party and a non-church party. That would be the last thing that we would want to have happen."Jensen said major national political parties may take stands that do not coincide with teachings of the 10 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but that should not put them out of bounds for members.   A former attorney and lifelong Democrat, Jensen was careful in his comments not to suggest an official LDS preference for any political party but to maintain the church's traditional stand of partisan neutrality.  The First Quorum of the Seventy is the third tier in LDS Church leadership after the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and the governing First Presidency.  

Jensen for the past three years has been a member of the church's Public Affairs Committee. He was designated by church officials to respond to The Salt Lake Tribune's request for an interview on the topic of partisan imbalance in Utah and among LDS members.
The Tribune's inquiry came on the heels of two significant developments: Utah Democrats' unprecedented failure to field a candidate in a congressional race and a statement from the LDS First Presidency -- read over pulpits in January -- urging members to seek elective office.In an hourlong interview at the church's worldwide headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City arranged and overseen by LDS media-relations director Mike Otterson, Jensen discussed leaders' views about the seeming demise of two-party politics among members. Among the concerns he aired:-- The LDS Church's reputation as a one-party monolith is damaging in the long run because of the seesaw fortunes of the national political parties.-- The overwhelming Republican bent of LDS members in Utah and the Intermountain West undermines the checks-and-balances principle of democratic government.-- Any notion that it is impossible to be a Democrat and a good Mormon is wrongheaded and should be "obliterated."-- Faithful LDS members have a moral obligation to actively participate in politics and civic affairs, a duty many have neglected."I am in shock," Utah Democratic Party Chairwoman Meghan Zanolli Holbrook said when told of Jensen's comments. "I have never heard anything like this in the years I've been here.""That's an earthshaker," said Democrat Ted Wilson, head of the University of Utah's Hinckley Institute of Politics and a longtime critic of the close connection between the Mormon Church and Republican Party."Mormon Democrats have been praying for this," said Wilson, who is LDS. "This is more than seeking -- we have beseeched the divinity over this."Utah Republican Chairman Rob Bishop's reaction was less enthusiastic. "Any time a major player in the social fabric of the state, like the church, says something, it will have an impact.""We obviously will not change," Bishop added. "If Mormons feel comfortable we welcome them. And if non-Mormons feel comfortable, we welcome them, too."Jensen, who was called as a general authority in 1989, said high church officials lament the near-extinction of the Democratic Party in Utah and the perception -- incorrect though it is -- that the GOP enjoys official sanction of the church.All five Congress members from Utah are Mormon and Republican, four of the five statewide offices are held by GOP officials and two-thirds of the state Legislature is Republican. Nearly 90 percent of state lawmakers are LDS. Democrats last held a majority in the state House in 1975, and in the Senate in 1977.

"One of the things that prompted this discussion in the first place was the regret that's felt about the decline of the Democratic Party [in Utah] and the notion that may prevail in some areas that you can't be a good Mormon and a good Democrat at the same time," Jensen said.  "There have been some awfully good men and women who have been both and are both today. So I think it would be a very healthy thing for the church -- particularly the Utah church -- if that notion could be obliterated."The idea that Mormonism and Democratic Party affiliation are incompatible traces back to the early 1970s, when LDS general authority Ezra Taft Benson, who later became church president, was quoted in an Associated Press interview as saying it would be difficult for a faithful member to be a liberal Democrat.Church officials later claimed the comment was taken out of context, although the AP stood by its account.  Jensen said concerns exist on two levels about the unofficial linkage of the Republican Party and Mormon Church.One is the fear that by being closely identified with one political party, the church's national reputation and influence is subject to the roller-coaster turns and dips of that partisan organization. Also bothersome is that the uncontested dominance of the Republican Party in Utah deprives residents of the debate and competition of ideas that underlie good government."There is a feeling that even nationally as a church, it's not in our best interest to be known as a one-party church," Jensen said. "The national fortunes of the parties ebb and flow. Whereas the Republicans may clearly have the upper hand today, in another 10 years they may not."

What does this article do to the anti-democrat Mormon’s argument that no Mormon can be a Democrat?  
I have a full copy of the long article if anyone wants to read it; email me.  I also have a copy of a story about Harry Reid that appeared in the Tribune.  He says a lot of members of the church wrote letters to him telling him what an awful person he was for being a democrat.  I think that is funny, since Reid is more conservative than a lot of republicans.

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

9 comments:

Head Master, Society of Saints said...

Mormons can be democrats, I don't believe they can be liberal. I could be a Kennedy democrat or even a Liberman democrat. I could not however be a Kerry or Dean democrat. The same way I could not be a Brownback or Buchanan republican.
It isn't the political label that counts, it is your belief system.

Reid is a bit of an enigma and I am slowly changing my opinion of him. In light of the Iraq war I am beginning to see a bit how he must see republicans. Reid is a pro-life, anti-ACLU democrat. Sure he is a bit kooky and a bit on the flimsy - wrist liberal side but I do think he has potential. I am a bit dissapointed on his lack of support to our troops while they are in combat but I am glad that he voted on the war on terror.

I completly believe that the religious right is as dangerous as the liberal left. We should fight fervently against the both since they are both anti-liberty and anti-choice. The likes of Pat Robertson are equally as destructive.

We should back the likes of Liberman democrats and draw closer to the middle since it seems to me that these days the middle is more conscious. The opposite of the spectrum are dangerously close to the point where they will say and do anything to prove a point and make us believe them.

I just see that we are in the biggest political fight in the history of our nation. Never have both sides been so dangerously zealous in their hatred. People of conscious should be very weary of siding with any party. We should be anxiously engaged in a good work and fight for liberty, freedom and the rights of all.

Matt said...

I agree with 'the Head' on this one. It is not the label that really counts, but your own views. As I become more and more cynical of politicans as a whole and the mismanagement of government, I am increasingly looking at issues as opposed to voting party lines. The traditional views of either major party have become so watered down that the only issue that determines your party is your stand on abortion, and even that issue can be spun.(Romney ran as a pro-choice candidate.) You have to align yourself with those that hold your own personal ideals, otherwise you are nothing but an ideologue.

Sure you can be a card carrying member of the Church and be a democrat. The issue is what kind of democrat, the level of moderation. I would say that most LDS democrats would have to still hold to, at the very least, a traditional view of America to stay in line with church doctrine. Amen to 'the Head's' final paragraph, be weary of the fringes and stand up for truth, freedom and liberty and justice for all. you may be seated...

CitizenSaint said...

Personally, I think you CAN be a Democrat. However, it is difficult to be one. I could never support them. They have one basic ideology that has always been at the core of their belief system. They believe in socialism. You can call it what you want to.. liberal, progressive.. blah blah blah. It is socialism. They want to take money from people and give it to others through government force.

Now, there are Republicans that believe this too, but there are LESS of them. They are the lesser of two evils. I can't support individual Democrats because they will help vote in a socialist ideology both in the Congress and the courts.

So, this raises the ultimate question. Has the two party system outlived its usefullness? I am a strong conservative. I don't have a voice in the government. Not a strong one anyway. The Republican party has made too many consessions to socialism.

As members of the Church we should believe in a few basic things.. and lets take abortion out of it. It is an old and tired debate. We should believe in Liberty. We should believe in people working for what they earn. We should believe in smaller government with far fewer programs. They should legislate for our protection at home and abroad and nothing more. Money corrupts, and our politicians have way too much of it. They are indeed corrupt. The founders are turning in their graves.

I think if we focus on these basic principles, everything else is fringe. I think zealouts are ludicrous no matter who they may be, but I would love to have a true traditional, anti-socialist leader who could at least try to get us out of the hole we have dug for ourselves.

This is why I am not a Democrat. It is why I am not a Republican. I am also not Libertarian. I don't know what I am. I just call myself a Citizen. Fair enough?

CitizenSaint said...

Maxwell wasn't a Democrat. That is a myth. And personally, I think that a theocracy is a great thing as long as it is lead by God himself.

Plus, the Savior would never support the modern definition of "progressive." Progressives today basically believe in no moral absolutes. There is no RIGHT and WRONG.. That is why they fight religion and true freedom at every turn. The progressives have already become socialist and are one step away from Communism. I am sorry, but people are seriously deluded for thinking they can follow the Savior and follow this movement.

Head Master, Society of Saints said...

I think Citizen is presumptive that a political party can narrowly define what a Christ loving person can or can't be a part of. britishgirl is right, members of the Church should be encouraged to be whatever they want to be. I also think that Citizens assertion that democrats so call "fight" religion and "true freedom" (I don't know what that means) is overly inclusive. Tell that to Joe Liberman, John Kerry and many others who are functional religionists although they don't adhere to the fundamentalist zeal that Citizen follows.

I will continue to be consistent and say that members of the church can be democrats and feel comfortable in being so as long as they adhere to principles that define what America is. Liberty, Justice, Equality, Accountability and Freedom. It is silly to believe these principles have any affiliation with a certain party.

Unknown said...

I don't know about Maxwell, but i DO know that Faust was a democrat. He was also appointed to Kennedy's civil right's counsel. IT was right there in his obituary.

It is the prevailing sentiment among (Utah mormons especially) that I've met, about Democrats being unrighteous, that initially turned me off to the Republican party. I personally think that either party is corrupt, and a human institution, and therefore unsupportable by the church. They're tools used to create the balance of powers, but both of them have their problems, doctrinallys peaking. Therefore, the only "bad" Mormon aspect of the two party system would be unflinching loyalty to either party. That would be a dangerous place to be, spiritually speaking. We ought to be guided by the Spirit, first and foremost, and not by a party's political agenda or platform.

Jenn said...

As a mormon independent, (but lately more democrat than not) I have to to say you people who think you can't be Mormon and liberal are way off. I see the opposite as more accurate. I cannot believe the Savior, if he were here today, would align himself with the party that supports the rich and powerful to crush the poor. Most Mormons I have met outside Utah are democrats or at least independent. The conservativism that pervades Utah is more a function of it being a Western, more rural state, than any part of Mormonism that supports it. Mormonism teaches against materialism, to help and serve the poor, and the BofM is rife with warnings against class distinction. It's always interesting to hear people who would call themselves good Mormons try to square their Hannity-esque beliefs with the teachings of the scriptures. Some of the most Christ-like mormons I know are quite liberal, much more than myself. I also know quite a few few Christ-like mormons who would call themselves conservative, but are not far-right. You not only can be a liberal and a Mormon, I think you could make a very strong argument, it is easier to be a Mormon and liberal. It's a matter of fitting the religion, and fitting the culture of Utah.

AdamsGrandpa said...

On August 29, 1973, I and 7 other new green missionaries landed in Santiago, Chile. That evening, in a question and answer session I asked President Glade, “ I have heard that there are a lot of political problems down here, what should we say if an investigator asks us about the political situation?” His answer was to kindly reply, “Somos misioneros Mormones. No tenemos nada que ver con la politica [we are Mormon missionaries, we have nothing to do with politics].” On September 11, 1973 in the early morning light a fighter jet bombed “La Moneda,” their equivalent of the White House starting Angusto Pinochet ‘s bloody takeover of their struggling democracy. A couple of weeks afterwards I was walking down the street with my companion when a 1 ton truck loaded with armed soldiers came up behind us and stopped. I looked up to see several machinegun barrels pointing in our direction. The officer in the front seat asked for our identification papers, which we carefully handed over to him. As he was looking them over, a voice from the back of the truck said, “Son Mormones. No tienen nada que ver con la politica [They are Mormons. They don’t anything to do with politics].” The officer then smiled and said to my companion in broken English, “It says, here that you are from California. I did some training in Camp Pendleton. Did you live near there?” The soldiers in the back sat down and started talking to each other.

This is a dramatic case, but it does demonstrate a point. I am alive today, because the church members in Chile took the Church’s position of political neutrality seriously. They were blessed for it. We survived when other churches were asked to leave or their leaders were made to disappear, expelled or tortured. The struggling branches and their 30k members in 1973 are now a thriving organization with well over half a million.

As I have studied both the parties’ rhetoric and performance, I have come to the conclusion that both are imperfect organizations of hard-working Americans that are trying to do what is right for the country. Both parties are a mixture of elements that are both consistent and inconsistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ. So it gets down to what your priorities are when looking hiring a government.

In my case, having witnessed the ugly face of tyranny combined with an economic disaster, my two top priorities are going to be the parties’ track record on protecting individual freedoms and stable economic growth. Although neither party has been perfect in these areas, in my humble opinion the Democrats historically have had the better record of protecting the rights of all our citizens whether we like them or not; including those of the Mormons in the mid to late 1800s.

After comparing the track records of the two parties, the preponderance of the econometric evidence supports the Democrats as the party with the best economic record in terms of business output, unemployment, Federal fiscal responsibility and even the stock market. (Since one of my master’s degrees is in a specialty of economics and my doctoral specialty is in research methodology I it was within my skill set to run such an analysis using actual numbers.)

Each of us has our own set of priorities and our own standards of evidence, so if any fellow Mormon wishes to disagree with me on their choice of which party to support, that is OK as far as I am concerned. That is their right. And having experienced what it was like to see that right suspended, I understand more than most how important it is.


But I am troubled when politicians try to use my religious beliefs for their own gain. Sorry, I and my ancestors have paid too dear a price to be bought like that. I am also concerned that church members are so one-sided in their support of one party. Bro Jensen is right. It is not to our advantage to overwhelming support one party and it certainly is not to our advantage to break our institutional political neutrality.

Brady said...

Great discussion!

I am a liberal-republican Mormon. (They have "conservative democrats", so why not "liberal republicans"?) I used to be a democrat. I think the democrat party has some great views, and while I do not like socialism, I do think America needs to watch out and not become too capitalist (which worries me, especially these days).

I still remember the night I became a republican. I discovered that 50 million abortions have been performed since Roe vs. Wade. I gasped aloud when I saw the figure... for me, personally, that was the deal breaker.

So, for now, I am a "liberal republican," and I hope that myself and people like me can push to reform the republican party from within and bring it closer to being a true Mormon-friendly party. If you happen to be a Mormon Democrat, we can still be friends.